VIN 12306 'Auryn' : RHD rebuild

[Starglider]

Dropped in again today, helped with some wiring. I am going with a three-position switch to control the side markers;

up : MOT setting : front side markers act as indicator repeaters (only), rears disabled
down : classic setting : front & rear side markers function as original design (come on with sidelights)
middle : hybrid setting : front & rear side markers come on with sidelights but also blink with indicators

The last setting is similar to the 'connect marker ground to indicator power' mod but implemented with relays as I'm using LEDs everywhere (reversing polarity would not have worked). Added some mini-DIN connectors next to the binnacle for the ultrasonic parking sensors, turbo boost sensors, exhaust gas temperature sensors and digital speedo. Working on making a nice brushed aluminium unit to go on top of the binnacle with all those displays at the moment; a little bit of Vector W8 styling .

[Rissy]

Starglider Wrote:middle : hybrid setting : front & rear side markers come on with sidelights but also blink with indicators

I wouldn't have the rear markers flashing, unless you're changing them for amber ones. Flashing red lights is naughty unless you're the fire brigade. :lol: Might get you pulled.

[Manxmann]

Didn't think the side lights/markers had to flash on this age of car. Mine certainly don't and I have a pile of old MOT's.

[MikeWard]

Manxmann Wrote:Didn't think the side lights/markers had to flash on this age of car. Mine certainly don't and I have a pile of old MOT's.

Correct Manx, it's not an MOT requirement.

The only lighting requirements for the D to pass a UK MOT are UK spec front headlights (with sidelight function), and rear fog light. Everything else, including the amber running lights in the front bumper, as well as the front and rear fender running lights can remain as-is.

[Starglider]

Manxmann Wrote:Didn't think the side lights/markers had to flash on this age of car. Mine certainly don't and I have a pile of old MOT's.

Following discussion with the DVLA it looks like this car will be registered as a 2013 new build of the 1983 (model year) DMC-12 design, under class L (low volume production vehicle). This requires an IVA and as such I want to be as compliant as possible. That said I believe the rear side markers are illegal whether flashing or not, because you're not allowed red lights that can be seen from anywhere in the front hemisphere; I've read about some people having to tape over them during MOT.

[MikeWard]

DVLA initially put 4708 down as "declared manufactured 2001" - I sent them a strongly worded letter together with the V5C and quite literally a raft of supporting information to show it was manufactured in Oct 1981. I received an updated V5C with the correct manufacture date a few weeks later.

Starglider, I would have thought that you would want it registered/declared manufactured as a 1983 DeLorean, if the rolling historic (read free) road tax was to ever make a return, you would be in line for free road tax ever year. What? I live in hope

[Starglider]

MikeWard Wrote:Starglider, I would have thought that you would want it registered/declared manufactured as a 1983 DeLorean,

Well, it's arguable either way. The bulk of the parts (frame, tub, engine block, tank, most of the mechanicals and stainless, VIN plates) were made in 1981 and have been sitting in a storage unit since then. Chris has handmade a fair amount of new parts (brackets, panels, linkages, fascias, hardlines), Ed is rebuilding the engine with mostly new (turbos, intercoolers, pistons, exhausts, injectors, ECU) and some refurbished (intake manifold) parts. I have added numerous new parts e.g. shocks, springs, clutch, radiator, sills, some electricals to either replace missing originals or upgrade. Original gearbox has been disassembled and rebuilt using some brand new parts.

So you could plausibly register this as a 1983 car, partly assembled but never registered, that has now been restored. Or you could register it as a 2013 car made with brand-new and new-old-stock parts (this requires a 'certificate of newness'). When the project started I assumed the former, mainly because various guys on another forum took exception to the idea of a new-build DeLorean (DMC Texas is careful to say 'remanufacture' not 'build' and objected to anyone else claiming the later), because they insisted a 1983 car would be worth more, and because I wasn't sure how insurers would handle the idea of a 2013 car. That was when I was going to use a crate engine rather than Ed building one up from a block - I wasn't sure if it would meet modern emissions before but with Ed's new cats and ECU it definitely will.

Until recently that was all speculative; I discussed the situation with a chap at the DVLA and he said that if none of the parts have been assembled into a road-going car before (save for a couple of engine parts) then it should be a new build. If it is substantially similar to the 1983 DMC design, using primarly DMC parts and a VIN previously issued to the DMC company, then it should be registered as a low-volume production vehicle not a kit car. I called a couple of insurers to see what they thought about this and they were quite happy to accept a 2013 DMC-12 model year if it exists in the DVLA database.

Assuming that's correct and the car passes IVA ok, I believe P J Grady Europe will be officially the first company to manufacture a new DeLorean since 1983! As a bonus I could potentially get a 1984 personalised plate for the car, fitting the 'fantasy 1984 DeLorean' theme.

[Chris Williams]

Looking at it very basically being built using old parts/VIN could it not be classed as simply a 1981 unregisterd car?

Chris

[Guinney1971]

I've never had to tape my red rear side markers up for an MOT, because its
MOT'd as an import, and bar UK necessities, like legal headlights and a fog light,
VOSA say that you must not 'physically' alter the car to suit a normal UK spec
MOT - thats why you can get away with what would normally be an illegal
numberplate in the standard US size rear numberplate bezel (VOSA told me that
themselves).

I guess if you're going ahead with the idea of registering this as a 'new' car,
then you're gonna have all sorts of hoops to jump through in the way of modern
regulations etc, more so then with an older car - pre 1960 cars are now MOT exempt!

Also, what CO2 emissions will this car put out? Will you have to pay the graduated
VED system (for instance, my Grand Scenic puts out 154g/km, so is taxed as a diesel
car with those emissions at £170 per year). If you register it as a pre 23 March 2001
car, then you will pay 'PLG' road tax, which is about £225 per year (I'll find out exactly
how much when we come to re-tax our 1995 Cavalier next month....)

Mind you, with all the money your investing in this car, I guess a few quid either way
on road tax is neither here nor there :wink:

[Chris P]

Personally, I always have the red rear side markers changed to yellow and permanently wired in to the side lights and the front ones also yellow and acting as side repeaters .

Ive never had any MOT issues at all, with any of my 13 cars. On vin 522 I have just bought some front main flashers with a white segment which I will fit daytime running lights, the sidelights are incorporated into the head lights.. Most of my RHD.s were like this configuration, including vin 510.

I would not recommend trying to register it as anything but original. 1981?

[Starglider]

Chris Williams Wrote:Looking at it very basically being built using old parts/VIN could it not be classed as simply a 1981 unregisterd car?

That was the original plan but I had a chat with the DVLA, and if the parts weren't previously in a road-going vehicle new-build was recommended. It feels more honest to me as everything perishable (and quite a lot of other parts) is brand new, and the only assembly done in 1981 was welding the Y-frame and bonding the tub together. Every other part was assembled (fully stripped and reassembled, for the gearbox and engine block) in the last six months.

Guinney1971 Wrote:I guess if you're going ahead with the idea of registering this as a 'new' car, then you're gonna have all sorts of hoops to jump through in the way of modern regulations etc, more so then with an older car - pre 1960 cars are now MOT exempt!

There are some additional hoops, but the IVA is fundamentally just 'is the car safe to operate on the road' similar to importing a car (without a precedent). It's nothing like UK / EU type approval, which involves crash testing etc.

Quote:Also, what CO2 emissions will this car put out?

As I understand it (and I am still trying to understand these regulations so I could be wrong) cars without a UK type approval are taxed on the old engine capacity scheme not the modern CO2 emissions scale. CO2 is not tested as part of the IVA, although CO and NOx are.

[Chris Williams]

Quote:There are some additional hoops, but the IVA is fundamentally just 'is the car safe to operate on the road' similar to importing a car (without a precedent). It's nothing like UK / EU type approval, which involves crash testing etc.

Not trying to be a doom and gloom person but when I built a kit car (7 rip off) I had to go through an IVA (was SVA then) and it's not the simplist thing to do, I'm told a IVA is a lot worse as well. HOWEVER it all came down to the inspector on the day! Depends how they want to play it I suppose.
I still think I would aim for a 1981/2/3 build could solve a lot of issues and you never know we might get road tax exemption one day as well.
Chris

[Guinney1971]

Chris Williams Wrote:and you never know we might get road tax exemption one day as well.
Chris

it was brought forward to 1974 from 1973 in the budget, so we live in hope.... :wink:

[stunned_monkey]

Just on the side repeaters - no the DeLorean doesn't need them by law but it's well worth the small effort to fit them! The way the "invert" when the sidelights are on is technically against the law though - but comes under the heading of common sense in any MOT I've ever been to or heard of.

You might find that repeaters need to be in a different place for an IVA (no expert here though!)

PS: Finally on line after the move - yay!

[Starglider]

Mid-80s appropriate seatbelt covers (i.e. if the car has a turbocharger, plaster 'turbo' on every free surface);