Photo of RHD DeLorean, black interior needed

[Guinney1971]

Thats a really interesting bit of info there Bozzy, good find!

[Phil Peters]

deloreanguy Wrote:Phil,

The photo at the right of your sig, is that one available high-res? It would be great.

James

Hi James, I've got a larger version of it but it's quite pixellated as it's a screenshot from a bit of video footage (taken about 5 years before I eventually bought the car!).

I'll try and do a better screen capture of it and send it over for you to see if it's usable. Do you want it in CMYK?

Cheers,

Phil

[Phil Peters]

bozzzydmc Wrote:Is your dash vin plate glued or rivetted in Phil ?

If its glued then maybe there are rivet holes which you can see underneath when you remove your dash ?

It was glued on but I carefully removed it to see what was underneath. Sure enough, there were two hacked off metal "stumps" underneath which must have been where the original VIN plate was riveted to the dash.

What really struck me about this was it meant that the cars must have kept their original VIN numbers AFTER the RHD dashboard was fitted to the car. Therefore they must have been re-numbered at a later date. This ties in with some research I've been doing with Shannon from the USA. Shannon has pinpointed (and I think James E. has verified this?) that #12171 was the first car to be given a VIN after the receivers took control of the factory in '82. This would also possibly (but not conclusively) explain why VIN# 510, although being a Wooler-Hodec car, doesn't have a 121XX VIN number. Somehow it seemingly slipped through the net when they were re-numbering the cars.

[Phil Peters]

bozzzydmc Wrote:2. The second batch were registered and used by the factory in Northern Ireland, with registration numbers (license plates), AXI 1697, AXI 1698, AXI 1699 and are referred to by enthusiasts as the “AXI cars”. These three cars (VINs 5565, 5592 and 5638) differ from the Wooler-Hodec cars in several ways. These three cars all had roof mounted radio aerials, very small round front side marker lights, no rear side marker lights, white forward-facing door lights, fog-light switch, and textured body rubstrips on the stainless steel panels. No catalytic converters or Lambda equipment were fitted as British legislation did not require them. The car with the registration number AXI 1697 was reputedly a fully UK homologated example which would have been shown at the British motor show at Birmingham, UK in October 1982.

Can you shed any light onto where the second batch was actually #converted # ...yes I can see these were "registered and used by the factory" but who actually did the conversion ?

That I don't know, I'm afraid.

The stuff on Wikipedia was mostly written/amended by me recently in an attempt to update the stuff that was on there before (even the stuff on our club website is also not 100% correct and there are some discrepancies in what's been written there). I felt it was important that I didn't state anything where there was no concrete evidence to support it, so I didn't make reference to where the AXI cars were converted. That's also why I've used the word "reputedly" so many times! :lol: :wink:

It's fair to say that the cars were registered at / by DMC, as the "AXI" part of the number plate is the code which refers to Belfast, showing that's where the cars were registered. More conclusively, I have also seen a photo which was taken inside the factory in 1982 which shows the number plate "AXI 1697" hanging on the wall!

In terms of where and when they were converted, Chrispy is adament that Barrie Wills' team at Dunmurry converted them. I've never seen any evidence to actively support this but then again I've not had an opportunity to speak to Barrie and ask him to confirm it one way or the other. However, DMC had booked a stand at the Birmingham Motor Show in October '82 with enough space for three cars...makes sense that they'd need to have 3 RHD cars to go on the stand with all the latest updates, such as later style door pull straps, later style carpets, etc (which the "AXI" cars have).

For me personally "the jury is still out" as to where they were converted until some concrete evidence emerges; and I'm sure it will, given time. This is what fascinates me about these cars: there are so many questions left to answer!

Cheers,

Phil

[Chris Hawes]

Wiki mentions your car being vin12175 and an auto. Your signature shot states it ends with 12173 and is clearly a manual. If you own vin12173 who owns the automatic 12175?

[Phil Peters]

Hi Chris,

Wiki mentions "a former Editor of the UK DeLorean Owners Club" which is none other than our very own Andy Withers

Andy's is the only automatic converted by Wooler-Hodec, although 6 were originally planned for conversion.

Cheers,

Phil

[bozzzydmc]

Cheers for the relpy Phil it is all very interesting

One more thing ... which batch was made first the Wooler H set or the factory used set ? any ideas?

Mike


PS : Have you taken your rear facia off yet ... be great to see you old vin number on there

[Phil Peters]

Again, I wouldn’t like to say conclusively as I’ve not (yet) seen any build/conversion dates cited for the “AXI” cars. But looking at all the evidence objectively, I’d put very good money on the fact that the Wooler-Hodec cars were done first, followed by the “AXI” cars.

The Wooler-Hodec conversion contract can be dated back to October ’81 and seems to be the starting point of DMC’s RHD programme. To my mind, it would seem logical to work on the “mechanical” aspects of the conversion first (pedal box, brakes/clutch, steering rack, electrics, dashboard, knee pads, air con system, etc.) and then work on the last few details to finally achieve UK type approval prior to launching the car.

On this basis I believe the Wooler-Hodec cars were very much an exercise to work on these mechanical aspects rather than ensuring they were 100% UK homologated, as in many respects these cars were/are still federal cars (they still had red lenses on the rear side marker lights, no foglights or foglight switches, etc.)

The “AXI” cars seem to represent a further exercise in developing the last few UK-specific aspects such as the placement of the foglight switch, the removal of the side marker lights, alterations to the door lights, etc. I'd guess that the experiences gained from the initial Wooler-Hodec project would then have been incorporated into the more UK homologation-friendly “AXI” cars.

What do you guys think?

Cheers,

Phil

p.s. I haven’t taken the rear fascia off yet but I’m very tempted to have a look and see if there are any clues hidden behind it. I would love to know what the car’s original VIN was!

[Dan6457]

Ive wondered why the RHD cars were 'converted' Why weren't they built as RHD cars to start with. If they had gone into production they would of been built as RHD, not LHD ones chopped about.

[Phil Peters]

Hi Dan,

I think it came down to a number of factors, including:

1. Where would they be built? The factory and assembly lines at Dunmurry were set up specifically for LHD cars and no provision had been made in terms of floor space or tooling for RHD production. Somewhat short-sighted on DMC’s part perhaps!

2. Cost. DMC had several sets of underbody molds for the LHD cars, each of which was apparently really expensive. Rather than create one or more sets of molds for a RHD underbody, it was felt that a conversion to a LHD underbody would be more cost effective.

Interestingly the MD of Wooler-Hodec at the time was quoted in a national UK newspaper, saying that he hoped his firm would be awarded the contract to produce DMC’s RHD cars. So it looks as if the DMC management were fully contemplating a RHD conversion as their offering to the UK market. Thinking about it, I seem to recall there is a bit of footage in the 1981 Documentary, "De Lorean", by D A Pennebaker and Chris Hegedus where JZD and CK Bennington are discussing retrofitting the proposed UK cars “at the port of entry”.

Cheers,

Phil

[bozzzydmc]

Phil Peters Wrote:Again, I wouldn’t like to say conclusively as I’ve not (yet) seen any build/conversion dates cited for the “AXI” cars. But looking at all the evidence objectively, I’d put very good money on the fact that the Wooler-Hodec cars were done first, followed by the “AXI” cars.

The Wooler-Hodec conversion contract can be dated back to October ’81 and seems to be the starting point of DMC’s RHD programme. To my mind, it would seem logical to work on the “mechanical” aspects of the conversion first (pedal box, brakes/clutch, steering rack, electrics, dashboard, knee pads, air con system, etc.) and then work on the last few details to finally achieve UK type approval prior to launching the car.

On this basis I believe the Wooler-Hodec cars were very much an exercise to work on these mechanical aspects rather than ensuring they were 100% UK homologated, as in many respects these cars were/are still federal cars (they still had red lenses on the rear side marker lights, no foglights or foglight switches, etc.)

The “AXI” cars seem to represent a further exercise in developing the last few UK-specific aspects such as the placement of the foglight switch, the removal of the side marker lights, alterations to the door lights, etc. I'd guess that the experiences gained from the initial Wooler-Hodec project would then have been incorporated into the more UK homologation-friendly “AXI” cars.

What do you guys think?

Cheers,

Phil

p.s. I haven’t taken the rear fascia off yet but I’m very tempted to have a look and see if there are any clues hidden behind it. I would love to know what the car’s original VIN was!

I would love to see some documentation to see that these 3 AXI cars were actually converted in the factory and not to cause any controversy here im finding it hard to believe that the factory would do any of the RHD conversions themselves, why would they when WH was already doing it for them?....I think you have it right there Phil ... perhaps they just did the last few ' details'


Mike

PS: Come on Phil get that facia off ... you never know you might find 'Pilot' written on it

[neal]

There was talk at the time,(82) among the workforce, that they were (DMCL) going to make a RH car for the UK market.

[deloreanguy]

Phil Peters Wrote:Again, I wouldn’t like to say conclusively as I’ve not (yet) seen any build/conversion dates cited for the “AXI” cars. But looking at all the evidence objectively, I’d put very good money on the fact that the Wooler-Hodec cars were done first, followed by the “AXI” cars.

The Wooler-Hodec conversion contract can be dated back to October ’81 and seems to be the starting point of DMC’s RHD programme. To my mind, it would seem logical to work on the “mechanical” aspects of the conversion first (pedal box, brakes/clutch, steering rack, electrics, dashboard, knee pads, air con system, etc.) and then work on the last few details to finally achieve UK type approval prior to launching the car.

I would say the WH contract dates prior to Oct 81. We have a draft of the Long Range Product Plan for DMCL dated June 1981. It talks about a contract having been established with WH to design and build a RHD version. The running prototype was in Dunmurry at this time being evaluated. WH was to convert a total (according to this document) of 84 cars for use by DMC within the company.

All this will be in the next issue of 'deloreans' (V5N1) due out in early November as part 3 of a 4 part series on this document.

James

[Phil Peters]

deloreanguy Wrote:I would say the WH contract dates prior to Oct 81. We have a draft of the Long Range Product Plan for DMCL dated June 1981. It talks about a contract having been established with WH to design and build a RHD version. The running prototype was in Dunmurry at this time being evaluated. WH was to convert a total (according to this document) of 84 cars for use by DMC within the company.

That's absolutely fantastic info James!

It also ties in with the date of the board room discussion in the Pennebaker and Hegedus film which I believe was filmed in April '81.

Cheers,

Phil

[neal]

Don lander(MD) had a RH car at the factory, It was for John Delorean to used if he was to stayed in Belfast.