VIN 4267 comes to England

[Matt Clark]

I'm sure some of you know me as someone who has been lurking around for years and years - I did the maths the other day and was mildly horrified to discover that it's been at least 21 years since I realised I wanted a car.  Like a lot of people in their mid-30s, I was introduced to BTTF at quite a young age, and it was easy to fall in love with the time machine - but I didn't really think of it as a car, or even a real object - it was just a cool movie 'thing'. A couple of years later - in 1997 - I was beginning to take an interest in cars, and by chance I looked at a classic car mag in the shop I worked in, and the first page I opened it to was this piece featuring Rob Lamrock's car.




The article got me hooked; it focused more on the 'so near yet so far' aspect of the history rather than the scandal, and was a largely sympathetic write-up of the car. As I did more research I realised that over here, at that time, articles like this were rare - most very sour about the car due to the money invested and the scandal surrounding it. For contrast, a car book in my school library had a section on the DeLorean written by Quentin Willson, and we all know how he feels about it.  From there I hoovered up everything I could on the car; before the internet, I paid a book finder to track down Ivan Fallon's book for me, and I found the Gold Portfolio (the collection of magazine articles reprinted as a book). That led me to here - well, pre-internet, so it was Dave Howarth's phone number, and he was always good enough to patiently chat to me about the cars whenever I phoned up with whatever collection of tedious questions a 13-year old could muster (a lot, as it turned out). Eventually he invited me up the the big annual classic car show in Birmingham on set-up day to see my first car, and it was: awesome.



I took a saturday job working in an exotic car body shop, around Countaches and 308s and the like, and and I still preferred the DeLorean. From that point onwards, I was determined to get one - which ended up proving difficult as I was also chasing a career in TV / film which typically means waiting a few (!) years for it to pay off. I was still at uni when John died in 2005; the price of cars here didn't really spike much as a result like I thought they might, and, still having a terrible rep, I figured I still had plenty of time to get one at what now seems like an absurdly low price. After that, though, we've all seen how they started to creep up and it was then that I felt the and the race was on to get one while also having to pay London rents, save up to buy a house, and keep a daily driver on the road. It was touch and go for a long time, but Dave and Chris P were great at keeping me engaged with the idea of getting a car. Chris in particular kept me in the loop with all the RHD cars he was uncovering, or photo archives he bought, or DMC staff he was meeting. O

For my 30th birthday my girlfriend secretly got in touch with Chris and arranged for him to lend me one of his cars for the day - getting handed the keys to #522 and told "come back in the evening" was hands down the best, and most terrifying, present I could have asked for. I was always worried actually driving one would be a bit of a let down - and to be fair by that point my daily driver 3-series was a lot quicker... but that didn't make it any less special.



A year later, having managed to not drive it into a wall, he also gave me the keys VIN #5638 to take down the NEC while he towed P20. That was a crash course in looking out for other drivers getting too close to get a photo - quite a few sweaty palms on that trip.



Interestingly, #5638 was listed for sale in that 1997 copy of Classic and Sports car. Small world! The red car listed there for £10,500 seems like such a bargain now - I paid more than that for my current one. It's virtually the same price as this one would cost now!



About a year ago, I started seriously looking for a car - by which point prices here had risen to 3 times what they were when I first became interested, and the $ was much less favourable for importanting as it had been for the last 20 years. I was seeing project cars here go for £20k on occasion and I felt like they were rising faster than I could catch up with them. A few months ago, my girlfriend sent me a link to a BHCC car - I'd stopped checking there as they had been selling some real nightmares that I'd never consider - but the one she sent me actually didn't look *too* bad. Rough overall, but the fundamentals looked solid enough. A day later I got a call starting me on a big Netflix show, which I took as a good omen, so I tentatively reached out to them - asking first about the shipping process because that would be the make or break of it - and to their credit, they were really helpful and it was surprisingly cheap, so, following some haggling, and after 21 years, I pulled the trigger on #4267.

---

It took about two and a half months from buying it to it arriving in Southampton - I finally got to go see it on Friday - only for 20 minutes, and even in this state, it's pretty amazing to have my own car after all this time. Seeing it in the warehouse like this reminded me of the very first car I saw at the NEC - I think these cars look best under warehouse lighting conditions! I'm having it transported to where it's going to live this week, so on Saturday I'll have a chance to fully inspect it and figure out where to start...








For those of you who use Instagram, I've set up an account for my car here: http://instagram.com/delorean4267/ - I'll be posting the work there over the next... few years? I guess? As well as stuff from DeLorean events I've been too, memorabilia I own, that sort of thing.

---

From the brief few minutes I had with it, here's some of the things I had a look at...

First, I'd love to know what the deal with this is:



I inspected the bodywork the best I could, and although the filth might be hiding a few things, I didn't see any dings beyond this in the LFF, which I'm hoping isn't too major a job to repair:



The crash damage you can see in the BHCC listing is about what I expected - I'm hoping to get the wing off when I see the car to see how bad the underbody damager there is.




I'd like to solicit opinions on the DMCH fibreglass fascias versus tracking down an original. The rear fascia has a similar split along the black / grey divide so I'm not sure if they both need replacing. I'm assuming the wing is a write off.

I'm a bit concerned with what's going on with the roof / T panel / door fit:






Some of the interior plastics are salvageable, but not much. Eventually I want to do a retrim based on the Visioneering car but in grey, so that's not really the end of the world. The seats look oddly good, though.



There's no ignition or keys so I'm not really sure on the process of testing things without that - opinions / tutorials welcome! As Chris P is often keen to point out - not much mechanical experience so far but I'm here to learn!



Oh, and the passenger door handle is gone, and so are the struts, so I didn't fancy trying to Indiana Jones my way in from the drivers side to attempt to open the passenger one - will buy some broom handles tomorrow to hold the doors up. I have new struts, at least, so that'll probably be the first job I do.

[Guinney1971]

Wow Matt, epic story (worthy of a write up for DeLorean News ), and congratulations on your purchase.

Firstly, bodywork, let Mr Nicholson loose on it. He repaired the NSF wing that was ripped on #2292 and you'd never
know it had been damaged. T Panel.... could be issues with the roof box underneath as they are prone to rot, but you
have a California car, so hopefully its had a relatively dry life.

From memory, the ignition barrel can be replaced with one from a Rover SD1, and door locks are basically Austin Metro,
so should be available second hand for now to get you going.

I got a replacement back fascia from Dave Howard, it was a NOS one, but he did have second hand ones too (front and rear).

Not sure whats going on with the inner headlights, but speak to Chris Williams as he can advise on proper UK headlights.

Cant wait to see progress, good luck with it!

[Chris P]

Its been a long journey Matt....but it'll be right. I'd be very surprised it the facias were beyond repair.....don't go buying any new one's until we've check that out. Well done BTW and a Grey manual eh......my favourite spec.

[TristanC]

Yes, well done Matt, from another longstanding lurker who has also just entered the world of DeLorean ownership.
Looking forward to seeing you progress with this one.

Best of luck,
Tris

[Chris Williams]

Nice write up, well done. Attack it a bit at time would be my advice. Otherwise it becomes to much of a project and suddenly becomes daunting.
Chris

[Nick H]

Congratulations Matt,
Definitely needs a visit to Chris N. Don’t worry to much about the roof box as Chris can fabricate new ones in stainless. He did one for my car.

DMCH have a incomplete list of key codes to VIN numbers so it will be worth shooting them an email to see if they have yours and can cut a new key(s) from the code. One advantage is you have the one key system.

Does it run?
If it’s been stored for a long time you need to go through the fuel system before you contemplate trying to turn over the engine. This will involve fuel tank diving. This is the club secret initiation to DeLorean ownership  . Seriously though the fuel tank will need cleaning out and both fuel filters and any perished hoses and rubber parts replaced i.e. fuel pump boot and cover.

Biggest thing is don’t be overwhelmed. Make a list and work though it as time and money allows.

Nick H

[Matt Clark]

(12 Jun 2018, 12:44)Guinney1971 Wrote: Wow Matt, epic story (worthy of a write up for DeLorean News  ), and congratulations on your purchase.

Firstly, bodywork, let Mr Nicholson loose on it.  He repaired the NSF wing that was ripped on #2292 and you'd never
know it had been damaged.  T Panel.... could be issues with the roof box underneath as they are prone to rot, but you
have a California car, so hopefully its had a relatively dry life.

From memory, the ignition barrel can be replaced with one from a Rover SD1, and door locks are basically Austin Metro,
so should be available second hand for now to get you going.

I got a replacement back fascia from Dave Howard, it was a NOS one, but he did have second hand ones too (front and rear).

Not sure whats going on with the inner headlights, but speak to Chris Williams as he can advise on proper UK headlights.

Cant wait to see progress, good luck with it!

Thanks! If you need a write-up let me know, but give me a heads up in advance as I usually run about a month behind my deadlines

What's the process with Chris N generally? Can he give ballpark quotes based on prices? It doesn't need to be exact, I just need to know if I'm taking in the hundreds or thousands per panel.

Thanks for the heads up on the ignition - it looks like I'm missing the whole steering lock assembly which DMCH list as a unicorn part - will need to hunt one of those down soon I suppose.

Does Dave do windscreens as well? I really need to phone him at some point.

(12 Jun 2018, 13:16)Chris P Wrote: Its been a long journey Matt....but it'll be right.  I'd be very surprised it the facias were beyond repair.....don't go buying any new one's until we've check that out.   Well done BTW and a Grey manual eh......my favourite spec.

Mine too, but I need a VIN-appropriate grooved bonnet!

(12 Jun 2018, 13:49)TristanC Wrote: Yes, well done Matt, from another longstanding lurker who has also just entered the world of DeLorean ownership.
Looking forward to seeing you progress with this one.

Best of luck,
Tris

There's been a few of us who have finally done it, it's been lovely to watch. Your car looks ace.

(12 Jun 2018, 20:15)Chris Williams Wrote: Nice write up, well done. Attack it a bit at time would be my advice. Otherwise it becomes to much of a project and suddenly becomes daunting.
Chris

Thanks again for your help on the phone with BHCC!

(13 Jun 2018, 07:44)Nick H Wrote: Congratulations Matt,
Definitely needs a visit to Chris N. Don’t worry to much about the roof box as Chris can fabricate new ones in stainless. He did one for my car.

DMCH have a incomplete list of key codes to VIN numbers so it will be worth shooting them an email to see if they have yours and can cut a new key(s) from the code. One advantage is you have the one key system.

Does it run?
If it’s been stored for a long time you need to go through the fuel system before you contemplate trying to turn over the engine. This will involve fuel tank diving. This is the club secret initiation to DeLorean ownership  . Seriously though the fuel tank will need cleaning out and both fuel filters and any perished hoses and rubber parts replaced i.e. fuel pump boot and cover.

Biggest thing is don’t be overwhelmed. Make a list and work though it as time and money allows.

Nick H

Hey Nick,

No, it doesn't run - no keys or ignition but also a big box of engine parts in the cabin so I assume it's not a case of simply hot-wiring. The car was last registered in 2000 according to the documents so I assume it's been sitting a while. What do I need to clean the fuel tank? That might be a job I can do tomorrow as I'll have a day with the car then. 

The car has no headliners and I'm sure I saw something written on the drivers door panel which I hope is the code. If I'm missing the ignition can I get that coded to the current code or do I have to start over?

[Nick H]

The fuel tank is a simple if normally unpleasant job. All you need is some chemical resistant gloves and some acetone and plenty of rags and paper towel. Do this job in a well ventilated area.
Make sure the battery is not connected.

Not sure how familiar you are with accessing the fuel tank so apologies if you already know.
If you remove the spare wheel you will see a access panel in the spare wheel well. This might be straight forward to remove or a PITA. The bolts/screws are secured in rivnuts that tend to seize and then turn in the fibreglass. Try getting some WD40 or similar and give them a spray before trying to remove.

Once you have got past the panel you will be looking at the fuel pump cover boot. My guess is this will be perished. Remove the large jubilee clip. Make a note of which hose is the flow and return and mark them up/take photos. Disconnect the pump electrical connection. Then you can just pull the inner boot holding the pump up and then disconnect the pick up hose from the base of the pump.

Then you can remove the rest of the fuel baffle assembly from the tank.

Nick H

[Matt Clark]

(15 Jun 2018, 11:46)Nick H Wrote: The fuel tank is a simple if normally unpleasant job. All you need is some chemical resistant gloves and some acetone and plenty of rags and paper towel. Do this job in a well ventilated area.
Make sure the battery is not connected.

Not sure how familiar you are with accessing the fuel tank so apologies if you already know.
If you remove the spare wheel you will see a access panel in the spare wheel well. This might be straight forward to remove or a PITA. The bolts/screws are secured in rivnuts that tend to seize and then turn in the fibreglass. Try getting some WD40 or similar and give them a spray before trying to remove.

Once you have got past the panel you will be looking at the fuel pump cover boot. My guess is this will be perished. Remove the large jubilee clip. Make a note of which hose is the flow and return and mark them up/take photos. Disconnect the pump electrical connection. Then you can just pull the inner boot holding the pump up and then disconnect the pick up hose from the base of the pump.

Then you can remove the rest of the fuel baffle assembly from the tank.

Nick H

Excellent, thanks. I've only ordered Nitrile gloves which aren't acetone resistant so I won't get to do that tomorrow, but I can still have a bit of an explore in that area. I'll have a week or two with it soon, so will get that that done.

The car is on it's way up to Derby at the moment, already picked up on twitter...

[Chris P]

These cars do get noticed! If you need a new tank Matt, I've still got a few put by.

[theningiachicken]

(15 Jun 2018, 14:08)Matt Clark Wrote:

(15 Jun 2018, 11:46)Nick H Wrote: The fuel tank is a simple if normally unpleasant job. All you need is some chemical resistant gloves and some acetone and plenty of rags and paper towel. Do this job in a well ventilated area.
Make sure the battery is not connected.

Not sure how familiar you are with accessing the fuel tank so apologies if you already know.
If you remove the spare wheel you will see a access panel in the spare wheel well. This might be straight forward to remove or a PITA. The bolts/screws are secured in rivnuts that tend to seize and then turn in the fibreglass. Try getting some WD40 or similar and give them a spray before trying to remove.

Once you have got past the panel you will be looking at the fuel pump cover boot. My guess is this will be perished. Remove the large jubilee clip. Make a note of which hose is the flow and return and mark them up/take photos. Disconnect the pump electrical connection. Then you can just pull the inner boot holding the pump up and then disconnect the pick up hose from the base of the pump.

Then you can remove the rest of the fuel baffle assembly from the tank.

Nick H

Excellent, thanks. I've only ordered Nitrile gloves which aren't acetone resistant so I won't get to do that tomorrow, but I can still have a bit of an explore in that area. I'll have a week or two with it soon, so will get that that done.

The car is on it's way up to Derby at the moment, already picked up on twitter...

Matt was just going through my twitter and saw that tweet had no idea you were on twitter till now

[Chris P]

Got my first view of Matts car today, its much better in 'the stainless' than in the pictures at BHCC. I was very pleasantly surprised and pleased. We rocked the car engine and it turns freely, the oil is clean.  The engine looks completely un-mucked about with to me.

I fully expect it to burst into life after the fuel system has been cleaned out.  Matt has changed all the gas strutts and things stay open as they should. Yes the interior is a bit tatty, but the seats are really good. The carpets should clean up OK. The Chassis frame looks good, (but not properly inspected yet). The stainless apart from the damaged wing, is really good.

Anyway I'll not steal Matts thunder.....buying a car blind is always risky, but I'd give him a good profit.... as it stands!  (Not that he's selling and I'm not looking !).  Well done Matt!

[Matt Clark]

(16 Jun 2018, 16:08)Chris P Wrote: Got my first view of Matts car today, its much better in 'the stainless' than in the pictures at BHCC. I was very pleasantly surprised and pleased. We rocked the car engine and it turns freely, the oil is clean.  The engine looks completely un-mucked about with to me.

I fully expect it to burst into life after the fuel system has been cleaned out.  Matt has changed all the gas strutts and things stay open as they should. Yes the interior is a bit tatty, but the seats are really good. The carpets should clean up OK. The Chassis frame looks good, (but not properly inspected yet). The stainless apart from the damaged wing, is really good.

Anyway I'll not steal Matts thunder.....buying a car blind is always risky, but I'd give him a good profit.... as it stands!  (Not that he's selling and I'm not looking !).  Well done Matt!

Thanks for the help today Chris, was good to see you again.

The car is definitely better than I was expecting, a proper clean-up of the stainless was really heartening as everything looks in pretty good condition. It was great to see that the engine too looked better than expected and the box of bits was not critical stuff. The interior being a state isn't the end of the world for now, I'm more worried about the wiring everywhere...

As Chris said, there was some changing of struts and cleaning up - starting light! With that in mind, just pretty pictures for now...

We set off from home at about 5:30 to get to Derby in time for the drop-off, and as I hoped, we caught up with the car on the flatbed.



The rain did a bit of a pre-emptive clean:



I like lower than stock ride height (the Visioneering car, as ever, is the perfect reference) and I think this one is actually a bit *too* low. Wondering if it's cut springs:



We quickly worked out that the blue on those headlights was just spray paint - the finish was actually really good on it, but still, a strange thing to do. My girlfriend took over the scraping of most of it off from Chris. Having this gone really makes the car look less of a wreck. We'll get the rest off with the acetone for cleaning the tank later.




With the stainless all cleaned up, and the black painted areas cleared of all the dust, I am amazed at how much better the car looks!




The hood fits perfectly with no curling edges or visible 'x' in the skin, but the release cable is severed so we're stopping it from closing fully at the moment.



21 years from this...



...to this!




I'll be back with the car in a few weeks so I'll start with cleaning out the fuel tank....

[Chris P]

I think the wiring is fine Matt, you just need a steering lock etc. The wires over the engine are all correct and I don't think they have ever been disturbed ....Its great.....don't worry!

[Dangermouse]

I know you're supposed to name your own car, but I am going to suggest "Frank" for yours.

as in Frank Sinatra, as in "Ol Blue Eyes"

now that they are gone