Worth importing this '82 D as a project?

[88mph]

Darren C Wrote:The observation I’m making here is that if someone takes a personal decision not to do something based upon their circumstances, there is always someone else to step forward and take over. I only air an opinion based upon experience. I have been fortunate to drive classic’s and sports cars for over 30 years including 20 years owning and driving many 911’s. I have raced them and even crashed and rolled a 911. You dust yourself off and get back on the horse. I’m not having a personal dig at you, just your pessimistic opinions and delusion of enthusiasts being priced out of the classic car market. As I said earlier people will just do what it takes to achieve their dream. Pretty much in the same way that the house price increase over the last 50 years hasn’t stopped people buying houses.
It just plain inflation and the market economy that causes the price rise. Why shouldn’t Delorean prices rise equally with all other classic car marques? You can’t cap them just because your own personal opinion is that it’s too expensive.
I agree with Rissy that the market will peak at some point, but I don’t think it’ll drop off a cliff like it did in the early 90’s; but just stabilise on a higher plateau for another 10 years.

Ahhhhh, see why all the 'twaddle-doom-master' etc stuff.
You mis-understood my point. I wasn't suggesting prices should be capped. I was suggesting that huge gains in value, are not always a good thing for the enthusiast. There will always be people who can afford to pay whatever the going rate is, but that doesn't mean every enthusiast can.

Speaking from my old scene, the humble aircooled VW's, you have to have a base line value, (say £4K to stop them all ending up the scrap yard,) and having a nice/reliable/rot free camper for 8-10K is great fun, down the beach, take to club/camp meets, you could mess round with it, lower it, put a bigger engine in etc etc.
When that 10K camper becomes 20K, kids jumping in with sandy/muddy feet start to become an issue, wet smelly salt-water dogs are more concerning.
When that 20K camper becomes 30K. Ohh should I take it to the super-market? Make sure you park it far enough away not to get dinged.*
When 30K becomes 40K, "Definitely has to stay stock, that's where the value is." Just use it for show & shine displays.
Some now want 50K, even seen one sell in the states for circa $120,000, temperature controlled garages & only out for photo-shoots.

Also your claim of people still buy houses, so huge rises in value are a good thing, is mistaken.
As I said, great if an estate agent or getting out of the market & moving to Spain, but if you want/need the house with more bedrooms/double garage for your delorean etc etc its bad news.
Example.......(simple figures)
You have a 100K house, need/want bigger house that costs 200K.
Fine sell yours, borrow 100K and move in.
Instead you have 100% inflation, but still need that bigger house.
Your old house is now worth 200K, great says you, but the other house is now worth 400K.
Sell your house & now borrow 200K on a mortgage.
The 100% inflation has made you, in the real world, poorer.

*Sell up and look for another smaller classic! :lol:

[Darren C]

Interesting point you make on value rise limiting useage.
It again depends on the individual and at which stop of “the cars appreciation in value” train journey you get onboard or decide to alight.
I would say that all the enjoyment limitations you list above are self imposed and created by the owner and no one else (except maybe a nagging partner who wants you to sell the blo*dy car and spend more time taking her to see her mother).
A true enthusiast should look beyond monetary value, and just do what gives them the most pleasure in owning or using a classic car.
The car you bought 25 years ago may have quadrupled in value, but it’s the same car now as then so why restrict your enjoyment of it?
If you’re so racked with guilt and worry on a monetary level, that it affects your enthusiasm for the car (thus limiting the useage) is it not time to question your enthusiasm and subservient monetary morals? Then accept that your enthusiasm has waned-causing the self imposed limitations- not the rise in market value and consider getting off the train or giving your seat up to someone else.
You may not get what I’m trying to say, but trust me I have the Tee Shirt to show I’ve been through this mill.
10 years ago I had the opportunity to pay off my mortgage but instead decided to spend £1/4 million on a car. (Not bad for a poor latch key kid from a broken home who had to wear his uncles secondhand clothes and getting free school dinners).
It had been my life long dream to buy a brand new Bentley, yet I was physically sick as a dog for several weeks after the car was ordered, and again on the evening of the final bank transfer. I couldn’t face the Champagne the dealer had laid on, looking green and ill, I simple drove the car home to put it in my garage. This was my life long ambition why did I feel this way? It was supposed to be a triumphant, jubilant celebration? The car didn’t go anywhere for a month. Each day I returned home from the drudgery of my day job (a job I could have given up if I’d not bought the car) to sit and look at it in my garage; wondering “what the f*uck have I done”
It took me 6 months to work it out.
In the end I realised it was down to my own restriction of enjoyment ruled by monetary values. Imaginary boundaries fencing me in, not allowing me to relax or be at peace. It was a real wake up moment; and I decided that enjoyment should not be restrained by worrying about what it cost. (or what it’s worth). You're only on this planet for a short time so don’t spend time worrying about stuff that stops you enjoying life.
What really cured me was taking the Bentley around to my friend who drives £500 sh*t boxes like they’re stolen and throwing him the keys and saying have a go with that…….the bravado drained with his colour!

Deep I know, but what I’m really saying is follow your dreams. If you aspire to owning a Delorean then just work to achieving your goal. Don’t be fenced in by your own self imposed limitations while fooling yourself that there are a 1000 external reasons why you haven’t done it yet.

I treat and cherish a car exactly the same whether it’s worth £50 or £500,000. this is the key, not some limited enjoyment scale based on £10K steps in value.

[jwrayth]

I fall somewhere in-between both of you I imagine. There are some things I simply won't do with the car, but then I do put her through her paces and have fun with her... otherwise what's the point.

As for racing... well, I probably should practise a bit before I do that again.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZmWtbtc8zI[/youtube]

[Chris Williams]

Great video, man after my own heart, I used to get ribbing for doing 1/4 mile drag racing in my old D! Out of interest what do you think the problem was? Lack of grip on the front after the brow of the hill?
Chris

[jwrayth]

First spin-out I came into the turn shallow, as on the straight I was expecting to be overtaken but the other car opted not to... but left it a bit late to decide. I was in the wrong position and didn't scrub off enough speed.

Second time was all me though :lol: Brake fade and overconfidence in my abilities, simple as that!

No damage to the car or myself; I regret nothing!

[Darren C]

jwrayth Wrote:No damage to the car or myself; I regret nothing!

Well done James, this is what it's all about
Doing things in your car that make you feel alive!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK9SLW6_h-o

[88mph]

Man that's funny, Well done though, I think most would of called it a day and headed to the bar, after the first cross-country! :lol:

Darren, I can kinda see your point, and you are obviously in a very (through hard work, no doubt) fortunate position, but in the real world it is always a balancing act.
Things you must have, verses things you'd like to have.
Things you have/need to provide for your family verses things/indulgences for yourself, be that a new Bentley, a fortnight motorbiking across Europe or even a weekends track racing.
I don't see this as the self imposed limits you suggest, just choices that most enthusiasts have to make every day.

But to my main point, have you come to your senses & sold that ridiculous Bentley yet?
If so, can you give me a interest free loan so I can get on this Delorean train?
Consider it a investment in friendship & I'm your new fund manager!!!! :wink:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Darren C]

LOL,

“in the real world”!!!!! :evil:

You make a great psychology test subject 88mph. Try not to think of any disconnection from “my world” and yours. It’s the same world. You hit the nail on the head with your analogy of a balancing act. If you put your very heavy dream weight on one side of the scales it will simply overbalance. The key is to put small bits of the dream weight on one side matched on the other side with what life change or compromise you chose to make it balance. Giant mountains are all made of molecules the same molecules in a single grain of sand.
How hard you work at it, is up to you. How you choose to do it is up to you. Doing nothing with a submissive outlook is not the answer.
I started with a £20 car sold it for £75, bought two £20 cars, put the £35 in the bank and sold one for £200 and one for £50, put £100 in the bank, and so on. The best was a £15 car (yes £15) that I sold for £8500, and it just went on over 30 years. Ok they needed work, but my time was free.
I also took 3 jobs, working 6am to 4pm at my main job then 5pm to 11pm (evening manager at Tesco) then working weekends on my 3rd job as a courier driver. Most weeks I worked around 100 to 104 hours. The killer is the tax man as both 2nd & 3rd jobs were taxed at 40% so a mere £5 hr at Tesco paid only £3 and the courier job paid about the same on double time.
It’s about determination to fuel your dreams.

To answer your question on the Bentley the answer is no, I don’t intend to sell it, just enjoy it. I’ve modified the active suspension and lowered the ride 30mm, removed the electronic 155mph speed limiter and the factory at Crewe tell me not to ever exceed 205mph as that’s the critical failure speed of the transmission. Here’s me taking it around Nurburgring



Far too much fun to sell!
As for an interest free loan….as Margaret Thatcher once said “Get on yer bike” :lol: :lol: :lol:

[88mph]

Think that was Norman Tebbit, wasn't it?
Sorry "real world" wasn't meant to be discriminatory.
If you like it, you like it, Selling Bentley was only a joke. Love to have a spin in it one day. 8)
Peace out, dude.

[Rissy]

I think most people genuinely work hard at whatever the do, in all walks of their life. It's all relative.

I think what differs is peoples interpretation or level of accepted effort which denotes the act of working hard and the income produced from the act and then how this differs from the value of desired purchasable items.

I'm always impressed with people's stories of how they have conducted themselves and learning of the sacrifices they have made in certain aspects of their lives in order to make another aspect work better for them (i.e. bring the level of necessary effort more in line with the accepted level of effort so as to close the gap to meet the desire aimed for)

I think by the sounds of it Darren, you have worked very hard and made sacrifice to get where you are and I commend that this level of effort has been equal to or possibly even surplus to the necessary level required in which to get you to where you are now, having achieved all you have achieved.

I for one have also had to work in excess compared to the typical norm in order to make some of my dreams come true.

I sacrificed relationships (although i'll grant you that this was aided by lack of interest from the opposite sex in the first place lol!)
I sacrificed desired luxuries I could do without (i.e. expensive toys, holidays, brand label items etc etc)
I sacrificed time with family and friends
I sacrificed relaxation time

I basically, for 7yrs, gave up my life. I spent it all over the the world for work. It wasn't unusual for me to work for 3, sometimes 4 months solid (no days off for good behaviour) and to work on average between 12 and 16 hr long days, with a few 24hr - 32hr days thrown in for good luck during sea trials times. I'd be lucky to have about 6 weeks in the UK every year, only coming home for a rest 3 times a year and basically sleeping and being ill during this time, just to get better again ready for the next 3-4 months stint.

Unsurprisingly, after 7 yrs of this, I nearly burned out and had to take a step back. I've been in the office now for nearly 3 years. I don't make nearly the same amount as I did then, and I don't even think I was paid my worth back then either. But despite this, it was severe sacrifice for someone to make. I basically didn't have the usual late 20's to mid 30's lifestyle as all my piers. I missed out on a lot.

But, It afforded me "LEX". My dream car. The car I wanted from the age of 12. Without all the hard work and sacrifice I would probably never own one even now, possibly ever. So for that, I am pleased.

So, as has been said before, unless you are super rich and money is no object for any expense required for what you desire, then it is indeed a balancing act. What you have versus what you can and are willing to give up in order to bring that new thing into your life, and then the balancing act changes to incorporate that too. It's an evolution of balance throughout your whole life. What comes out throughout, is purely as a result of choice.

Choice, and being in the right place at the right time. Half of all people's choice is down to chance.

88mph. You go for that car you want. I hope the choices you make, allow you to realise that dream. :wink:

[Darren C]

Admirable story there too, Rissy.

I think the point I’m trying to get across to potential Delorean purchasers is that: Anyone can do it.
Price is just relative to the economy.
Never give up, the rewards are greater than the sacrifice.
Be inspired.

£ for £ you won't find any other classic car that will bring you so much attention and pleasure

[Chris Williams]

Quote:£ for £ you won't find any other classic car that will bring you so much attention and pleasure

That's sums it up perfectly, think I'm gonna have to steal that quote
Chris

[andyd]

Darren C Wrote:£ for £ you won't find any other classic car that will bring you so much attention and pleasure

Scimitar!

Approx 10% the price of a D, and nearly as much fun!

a

[88mph]

Darren C Wrote:£ for £ you won't find any other classic car that will bring you so much attention and pleasure

I hope so, deposit paid!
Excited & scared in equal measure!! :lol:

[TheOriginalMrP]

Darren C Wrote:The peak (in my opinion; based on other classic car value increases today) should be:
£30K minimum for a LHD with MOT (needing improvement)
£40K for a RHD (in good condition)

Exceptional examples of each should command another 15-20% more

Let me know when they reach this value!

I think 30k for a LHD car with MOT that needs little work (and as time goes on, most will) that will be the tipping point for me. I love my car, the club, and have done for many years but I'm just not using it enough and it could bring so much pleasure to someone else...

It's been 8 years this December since I bought VIN 16327, and was getting offers 2 years ago circa 25k that didn't interest me at the time.... It still wouldn't. Weather there was any hard truth in the offers was another story, and that's one of the biggest headaches of selling without all the timewasters you incur when advertising. I couldn't be bothered with every Tom dick and Harry wanting to view and chip me down etc... An enthusiastic club member is the best bet.

But 30k is a lot of money, and in another 8 years it could be 60k... Who knows? I didn't buy the car to make money, I bought it to enjoy, and I have. But when the enjoyment runs out, where's the sense in keeping it hidden away for years just in hope it will become a gold mine....

Incidentally, this isn't turning into an advert to sell my car...

Unless of course you want to pay 30k for one that's already MOT'd for a year and in the country :wink:

Mr P