Steering lock to lock strangenss

[Emagine]

Evening all.... thought I'd put this in a public forum too after quickly getting canvassing opinion on Facebook.

Basically I'm getting 1 turn right and 1 1/2 turns left. The track rod ends are both equal and in fact wound all the way in.

These are two photos I have of the end stops for reference at the moment. I can take more photos tomorrow of the wheels lock to lock

[Rissy]

...sounds like you need to adjust the centre point of the steering wheel/rack by taking apart the steering column connection links. I recently replaced my steering rack on LEX last year, and disassembled my column links for cleaning and re-lubrication, and then had to put it all back again to provide equal turning in both directions of the steering wheel, lock to lock.

It's an easy enough job to do (I did it myself for the first and only time without any experience).
You access the necessary links by removing the access panels under the bonnet on the driver's side (under the carpet and in front of the fuel tank filler area). The link rod is splined, so its a case of sliding each end off, and positioning in the appropriate spline at each end for the centring process. This of course means that someone in the past has disassembled this before, and never bothered putting it back together again properly!

I'm sure I've got photo's if you want me to post them up, but i'd urge to to have a look at your car first, because once you see what i'm talking about, it's really easy to work out from there.

Be careful though, because this will mean that it will upset the steering rack adjustment for the front wheel alignment, and will mean redoing this yourself to a pretty adequate and safe point to then take to a garage to let them do their lazer alignment adjustment on the car properly. Otherwise you'll be driving unsafely, and you will most probably also start shredding through tyres at an accelerated rate too! I also did a pretty good job of this. In fact, the garage remarked on how good a job I had done without any lazer alignment equipment, and it hardly needed any tweaking by them at all. (They actually made it worse, before they made it that little bit better! 8) )

[Rissy]

...I should have said that you'll be wanting to jack up the front of the car, and most probably take off the wheels for easier access. You need to be able to freely move the steering wheel/column in both directions for testing/centring reassurance. Without the steering column connections all fitted, the steering wheel is left to freely rotate as much as it wants in both directions since it is the steering rack which has the limit of travel.... so make sure that you mark, and hold the steering wheel dead centre in the car when fitting everything else back again. It's worth cleaning up and re-lubricating the knuckle joints since you'll have it all apart anyway, as this definitely helped me with making my steering of the car easier (in addition to the new rack of course). 8)

Anyway, good luck. :wink:

[stunned_monkey]

His steering wheel points straight ahead with the car driving straight ahead. It's not a problem between wheel and rack.

[Rissy]

stunned_monkey Wrote:His steering wheel points straight ahead with the car driving straight ahead. It's not a problem between wheel and rack.

Yes it is.

[Martyn]

I'm all ears (or Eyes) Mart

[Emagine]

I've made some videos to show more

http://youtu.be/1vuSvi7FSRU

http://youtu.be/lzphte0jqkU

http://youtu.be/z9QKC9_04UI

http://youtu.be/g_ZG3hm1pZU

Tis a strange one this

[Rissy]

I've watched your videos, and it HAS to be exactly as I said...

From the video, you can see there is a brand new looking steering column connection rod there. (the splined rod with the knuckle joints on it)

You need to take that off.
Then centre the steering rack by manually turning the rod (ignore what the wheels are doing)
Once you KNOW your rack is centred I.e it takes the same amount of turning each direction before it locks at the end of its travel, then you want to reconnect the connection rod again, fitting it on to the spline in the correct location for the steering wheel to also be centred in the car.
By memory, I connected the lower half first, then centred the steering wheel and connected the upper spline last.
Once all reconnected and semi tightened, then test the steering wheel again. It should turn 1 & 1/4 ish turns from zero in both directions before locking.
Once you are happy with this, THEN you pay attention to your front wheels, and they are adjusted by turning the steering rack rods clockwise/counter clockwise depending on whether you need the rod to extend further out, or retract in.
Final and smallest adjustments are carried out by the track rod ends nearest the wheels to get the final alignment correct.
Everything should be done in this order...

[stunned_monkey]

The adjustment on the track rod ends does not give a quarter of a turn of the wheel, which is the level of offset Stu has. Even if they did, you don't want that much because you'll end up with bad bump-steer caused by unequal length rods. Stu and I have swapped emails and he knows my opinion.

[Rissy]

...if I'm wrong (and I can't see how I can be?) then that's fine, but this IS a DeLorean forum, so if you have an idea, or advice, then why are you NOT posting it up here, for prosperity?
Others might have the same problem at some point...

I for one would be curious to know your opinion and solution. That's why I'm a member of the club...

[stunned_monkey]

There're 6 teeth on the pinion, a quarter of a turn is 1.5 teeth and each tooth equates to around 10mm of rack travel.

I'm not sharing my opinion publicly at this time - for several reasons, one of which is that I may well be wrong! But I can't see any other explanation. It's not something that could affect an entirely original chassis.

[Rissy]

...It's ok to be wrong sometimes. what's more important is that people learn what works, and what doesn't. If we don't know what's been tried (even if proven not to be the answer) then how are people expected to eliminate the "red herrings"?

When I changed my rack last year (to one of Ed's new ones), at one point, I had exactly the same issue as is being displayed here.

I suspect that, as long as the rack itself has not been tampered in any way previously, then all that has happened, is the steering has been set up with all both arms (track rods) of the rack fully screwed right in, balancing out both wheels to look the same, giving wherever then the actual pinion is left to settle, and then the steering column has all been reconnected with the steering wheel in the straight position at this point.
This would give the appearance of everything being centred, until you turn the steering wheel, and realise the given travel in each direction, is not equal. i.e. someone has put the steering together on this car in a reverse order.

At the end of the day, the pinion gear rolls along the length of the rack, it hits each end at a given time, and stops. At some point, the pinion gear is half way along the rack, meaning it has to travel the same amount of teeth in each direction until it meets the end of its travel. This point, is the centre point where the column FIRST, wants to be fully connected up, with the steering wheel in the correct orientation. Ignoring the arms from the rack at this point, the steering wheel should then only turn around 1 & 1/4 turns from centre, in each direction, before being stopped by the pinion gear reaching the end of travel along the length of the racks teeth.

Re-centring the steering wheel again, once happy that the travel is equal, THEN attention is paid to the adjustment of the track rod ends, and the arms (track rods). Major adjustment carried out by the track rods, and minor adjustments by the track rod ends. Once the car is drivable to a garage, the garage will then tweak the steering according to the lazer alignment of the wheel positions, with the car fully settled on the ground in a driving stance, by final tweaking of the track rods again, by, once more rotational adjustment (clockwise/anti-clockwise), since by this point, the track rod end(s) are fully connected to the armature holding the wheel(s) (All this is done with the steering wheel braced in the centre position of course). Once the track rods are adjusted to satisfaction, the nuts are tightened on to the ends of the track rod ends, to lock the thread(s) in place to prevent unwanted rotating of the track rods.

ALL of this, I went through, starting in May last year, and finally concluding in October (due to working abroad commitments). It's all still fresh in my memory as I was doing it all for the first time, without any prior experience, learning as I went. LEX has no issues with steering now, and I've driven almost the length of the country, as well as over rough terrain just recently, and am having no issues with bump steer or anything else as a consequence.

The only variable I cannot comment on, is any potential difference between an original rack, and one of Ed's new ones. IF the track rods CANNOT be rotated clockwise/counter-clockwise for adjustment, then of course, the only adjustment would be from the track rod ends, which wouldn't be enough...of course, but I think this would be highly unlikely. These steering racks all work on the same basic principle...

I think the facts and figures surrounding how much cm travel per teeth on the pinion v's teeth on the rack is irrelevant for this issue. The rack should be a sealed unit for consideration of this issue. What's important, is the centring of it, and then reconnection of everything else around about it.

Of course, everything I'm saying, is opinion only, which could be wrong, and I'd be only too happy to be told I'm wrong, by use of information of what the issue ends up being as fact.

...I've said my piece.

[Chris Williams]

Either way, as it's difficult to know withoout the vehicle in front of us, if Stu could keep us informed of what/how it was sorted then that would be great. Though I also popped the steering wheel off to get the lock to lock turns correct after all the tracking had been set up!

Chris

[Rissy]

Chris Williams Wrote:Though I also popped the steering wheel off to get the lock to lock turns correct after all the tracking had been set up!

If the tracking had been set up correctly first (wheel position corresponds to mid position of the pinion gear on the rack) then you can detach the steering wheel column off and put it back in any position you want (upside down even) and it will not affect the number of turns the steering wheel can make in either direction. It will only change what the steering wheel looks like when driving in a straight line...

[Chris Williams]

Yes thats what I meant to say, it was to get it so that it was in the correct position when driving along in a straight line, not to get the lock to lock correct as this had been done!

Chris