Future Classics and Design Icons

[Daniel Shane]

Rottbott Wrote:In terms of top speed I entirely agree. There's no law against acceleration (yet) though.

Hi Rob,

There are two acts that can, at the polices discretion, cover this.

The Careless Driving act and the Dangerous Driving act have clauses that state if your driving "Style" is putting members of the public at risk then you can be prosecuted.

Dan

[Guinney1971]

so basically they'll spank your ass whether you're speeding, or just
speeding to the speed limit! lol :lol: :wink:

[Rottbott]

That Esprit chassis looks pretty similar to me other than the tubular engine section*. In any case, it's well documented that the DeLorean was intended to have a much more powerful engine than it ended up with. I can confirm that mine has no trouble at all with the current level of power - the car can certainly handle plenty more than I'm capable of as a driver!

We'll see what it can really be pushed to when the 3 litre version gets done. Aren't there also some cars in the US with stupidly powerful engines? (Non-PRV.)

I have yet to be told off for driving fast within the speed limit. If the car isn't out of control (i.e. sliding) I think they'd have trouble drawing the line for that sort of thing.

Actually I'm curious as to what experiences people have had with this, and what the laws say exactly. Say you're coming up to a red light or a junction in a 60/70mph limit and you want to brake late. If you brake as late and as hard as possible without locking a wheel, is that actually illegal? If it is, would it be illegal if you braked 1 metre earlier? 10 metres?


* Based on what Martin wrote below, maybe that's more important than it looks. I'm no expert on chassis design so I'll leave it there. :)

[stunned_monkey]

The weakest parts of the DeLorean's chassis when installing a more torquey engine has shown to be the plates to which the engine mounts are bolted. Minor to repair and reinforce should it be necessary (unlikely short of a small block chevvy!). The D's engine cradle IS boxed (ie tubular, just not circular tubes) and forward of the rear towers it has triangular box section reinforcements, although these aren't obvious until you take a chassis out. Whatever Lotus it borrows most from is a moot point, the fact is it was engineered to take more power, and it has been shown (not just by me) to take it beautifully.

I think it's testament to the DeLorean that it's 27 years old and yet still holds its own in the fast lane even with a stock engine. Giving it some more muscle just improves the driving enjoyment of a car with a great platform on which to build.

[Daniel Shane]

Rob,

In the eyes of the law, the Police officer's observation is law. If a Police Officer observes you driving dangerously or in there opinion speeding then you can be prosecuted. It has nothing to do with how fast you stop, go or skid, just if they decided your dangerous.

It is deemed that there judgement is good enough to convict !!!

As for Chassis, I was just showing that the Delorean's Chassis is NOT an Esprit's. As you can see it's a hybrid of a few of Lotus's Chassis.

Yes Im sure the Chassis can take more power. The rest of the drivetrain is not up to it. The front Lower wishbone on the Delorean is very prone to movement as it's not triangulated enough. Lotus saw this and on the S3 Esprit boxed in the Lower wishbone and Triangulated it to the chassis.

I have driven powerful Deloreans in the past, just as many as Martin has. In my opinion if this stuff is not dealt with then the car becomes a handful. Mark Levi's Monster Nissian Delorean just shows it. If you want to change lanes in it then just use the throttle. More to go out, less to go in !!!

However I have driven some very power cars in my time. Lotus's, Porches, Bentley's, Aston Martins etc and these cars are different. They have monster power but also have been designed and setup to take that power.

The twin turbo engines the Legend were developing where indeed for 1984, but how much power would they of had ? Also what else would of been changed on the car to take that power ? Everyone is just guessing here.

If you want a fast car, you can get one alot cheaper then £7000 and still have a Delorean that is going to be worth money when you come to sell it.

This is all IMHO and not intended to upset anyone.

Dan.

[stunned_monkey]

Marc Levy's DeLorean has it's Renault Vel Satis engine a good 6" further back than a stock DeLorean, coupled as it is to a Porsche transmission. It handles oddly, but predictably, and that's important (otherwise, the suspension and brakes are as tight as a drum). It's totally different to a turbo PRV however in just about every respect in the way you drive it. Only Rob and I know how well his car goes and handles first hand, so everyone else's view is just opinion until he gives test drives

My overriding impression of my first drive in a Venturi 260 was how tight and positive it was, and that sold me to the mid-engined cause. My 300 is even more powerful and more torquey than that, and is a real animal, worthy of its comparisons to the V8 Esprit - but isn't as comfortable or as forgiving as a DeLorean.

Once again, the 2.5 Renault turbo engine suits the DeLorean beautifully, in my opinion. Fast -enough- without being insane, the conversion requires no permanent mods to the car, mating natively to the transmission and engine mounts, and given the number of enquiries I'm getting as well as the cost of parts, the price point is about right.

According to Marc, IIRC, Legend were endurance testing their engines up to 18psi of boost, Given the 260hp and 290lb-ft torque the Venturi 2.8's produce at 15psi, with the same bore and stroke, I think an educated guess as to their power o/p is pretty easy. Despite what Clarkson might say, that makes for a damn quick car in the general scheme of things.

The limiting factor in DeLorean, Esprit and Venturi alike is the Renault UN1/369 gearbox which is not reliable much beyond 300ft-lbs.

[Guinney1971]

I just went back and read the first post in this thread -

just how off topic has this gone?

This discussion should have been moved to the relevant section me thinks - admin?

[Daniel Shane]

Oh Dear,

Marc Levi's car has a Nissan Engine the last time I drove it.

The Renault Vel Satis has a Nissan-sourced 24-valve, 3.5-liter V6 VQ35DE Engine. Marc is using a Nissan Maxima VQ35DE. It has fixed cam timing not the Variable Valve Timing system used in the 350Z. So it's not a Renault engine, thank god :wink:

I have driven this car afar few times so I do know what it's like to drive. It's well balanced in the dry but in the wet it's a handful. You have to pull off in second otherwise i spins up the rear

There are loads of cars that you can get for under £7000 that are going to be fast and fun. If you want to stay with PRV's then the Renault Alpine GTA Turbo can be had for as little as £3k. A BMW M5 E39 for £7k. A Porsche 948 is around £5k. A Nissian Skyline for £6k. This was just a quick look around on Ebay. All of these cars are properly quick, Comfortable and easy to Obtain parts for and loads of owners that can help you out with problems and advice.

There is no hybrid/custom/one-off parts used apart from the Alpine that has some ridiculously priced and hard to get hold of headlights , but then thats Renault for you. So 2,3 or 10 years down the line you can still get the bits you need and someone to work on it.

And you dont need a MCSE or a PHD to get them to go. You wont need to constantly muck around with fuel mappings, knock readings etc as the manufacture has spent Millions on getting it right for you rather than leaving it down to you to randomly punching numbers into a laptop hoping that you will find something that will make the car go rather than go bang !

Again this is all IMHO.

Dan

P.S. Claire, dont worry dear this is my last word on this in the area, I promise. If the discussion wants to carry on I'll move it to the correct area of the Forum

[Daniel Shane]

Back on topic

I drive my Elise or my Mini Cooper most of the time. My Audi is in bits at the moment but is going back together nicely. Just getting the digital dash working is being a pain !!!!

Looking at another SAAB 900 Turbo as another hack about.

Dan

[Guinney1971]

ooh, nice Saab 900 Turbo

Well, I think I've driven a different car every day this week! lol

Monday was Eric da Shed (MOT Retest booked)
Tuesday was Nuke (the last Cavalier ever built)
and today I'm in the Astra Coupe as it was going in for its MOT this morning.

I'd forgotten how quick that Astra is But boy was it fun getting behind
the wheel of it again

Now, tomorrow's choice...... :wink:

[Guinney1971]

stunned_monkey Wrote:Marc Levy's DeLorean has it's Renault Vel Satis engine .

or as we called them when I worked for Renault - Vel Static - cos when
you got one in stock, it stayed put :lol: :lol: :lol: