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+--- Thread: #2292 New engine (/showthread.php?tid=5545)
#2292 New engine - Guinney1971 - 02 Oct 2016
As some of you may know, #2292 finally spat her dummy out good and proper 2 days before the DOC-UK meet up in Northamtonshire
and the engine suffered 'block rot' and spewed oil everywhere. Luckilly the engine still runs (if you put more oil in it) so its not seized.
However, its not the car's original engine, having been changed around 1990 in the USA. It had significant work in 2003 and 2006, but
has never been satisfactory, and I've always had in the back of my mind what I'd replace it with.
With the current situation, I'm now ideally placed to move the engine idea forward.
I need to retain the UN1 gearbox, so I know that I will need an adaptor plate for a replacement unit. Ideally, I'll buy a complete donor
car so that I have the ECU, etc to make the swap 'easier'.
We are quite keen on a later Renault/Peugeot 24v engine, from say a 406 Coupe or a Laguna, and having been given measurements of the
Renault unit, we are pretty sure it'll fit. However, today at a car show, I was hanging my nose over the engine of a Rover P6 3500 V8. Got
chatting to the owner who said that if the LS1 fits in a DeLorean (a common swap in the US apparently), then the Rover V8 would, and suggested
the 3.9 with EFI from a Ranger Rover or Discovery. Hmmmmm, it'll certainly sound nice..... but seriously, will a Range Rover V8 fit in a DeLorean?
Any other thoughts are of course gratefully received. We are working to a very tight budget, as we also need to repair the chassis on the car whilst the
engine is out (frame sep whilst we're in there) as it has quite a bit of rot and is like 'weetabix' in the rear box section.
Ah, its all fun & games !!
RE: Engine transplant options..... - Rissy - 03 Oct 2016
My only thought right now on the matter.
"Very tight budget" and the subject of an engine swap, especially for anything other than originally intended, don't go skipping down the street together hand in hand.
RE: Engine transplant options..... - Chris P - 03 Oct 2016
I too have read its been done successfully in the USA, but it sounds like a lot of work/money to me.
(I once did it with an old Morris 10.4 …stuck in a Morris B series engine and gear-box) But that was in my youth…! ( We had almost no money and did it all myself).
I could let Frenchy's old engine go Claire….its not rotten and I was keeping it for myself, but I will probably never have time to do it. I also have a complete Peugeot unit, low mileage option that could go. On a different note…would anyone be able to shift my old volvo engine down to Chris W's place? Charity job i'm afraid…...
RE: Engine transplant options..... - Dan Willis - 03 Oct 2016
It *may* surprise you to know I've also been heavily investigating engine swaps for about.. oooh.. 20 years now.
1. There's no guide, best practice or cheap way to do it.
2. Unless you're good with CAD, have a friend (i.e. someone with the files or willing to sell you something), or a later engine that'll enjoy the company of the UN1, you're going to be getting an adapter plate designed and made at cost. Lotsa cost.
3. The Rover v8 is common... in the same way fitting a Cossie 4-pot is common to a Ford Puma. Yes, it's been done several times. No, it's not easy, no it's not a straight fit and you might as well assume you're the first.
4. The same goes for the LSx series of engines (a far better choice, but over here, far more expensive one).
5. Whilst it won't matter a huge amount, the Rover v8 and LSx series are very very close to the weight of the PRV, but are still heavier.
If you're hell bent, research the LS4 - it was transverse mounted in the US and so fits without chopping the rear crash bar. You'll need to cut that out for both the Rover and LS1/2 engines - or you could move the whole thing forwards on custom mounts... that sounds easy, right?
Also, remember your dash will need "help" to read the RPM count/tacho and any error lights you wish to marry up.
I'm sure much of this is stuff you know - so I hope it's not patronizing in any way. I have a frame with an unknown engine quantity awaiting a strip-down... half of me wants it to be okay, the other.. not so much
Oh, and brakes! More power needs better stoppers...
RE: Engine transplant options..... - Chris Williams - 03 Oct 2016
Both the above people have posted very good replies, I'm pretty much of the same opinion that trying to do anything other that will mate to the UN1 will be a nightmare. Do-able but really hard work and can be a money pit in specialist services (oo-er missis)
Fortunately Phill's good with the electrics so that sorts some of the engine/electrics/dash issues but it's still not easy. Me, I would stick with a PRV, get the block treated and enjoy the car. You can always change it for something else at a later date when all the PRV blocks have dried up!
Chris
RE: Engine transplant options..... - Guinney1971 - 06 Oct 2016
Already decided the PRV is going.
Just seen a 24V Pug 406 coupe sell on Ebay for just over £300. We've researched the UN1 adaptor plates, how to make them, etc, and its
very do-able.
The way we see it, all these old PRV's are eventually gonna go the same way, I've always hated the engine in my car as its had so many faults
over the years, so its time to say 'feck it' and get shot and put summat newer in.
The 24v L7X in our Avantime is a lovely unit, very smooth, and depending on version is in the 200-250hp range, so not stupidly fast. The only
issue, is finding a manual transmission donor car - it'll be ok if we do same job on Sorbet eventually, as that's an automatic, so there's a bigger
choice of donor cars out there.
Anyway, nowt will happen until our new garage is erected in a few months, so will post back when we have more news.
RE: Engine transplant options..... - Dan Willis - 10 Oct 2016
I agree completely Claire; with my PRV coming out I'm torn; originality (and put up with it until it holes or worse.. which it will) or go the way you are. Brave, but even DMC themselves are doing this now (and I'm interested, but it'll be a long way off). Hmm. Best of luck.
RE: Engine transplant options..... - Stuart Rees - 11 Oct 2016
Hi Claire, a Rover V8 sounds like a good idea. It's probably the engine that *should* have been used in the first place by the factory. I've always wondered if a Subaru flat 4 (with turbos) would fit, ideally with a Porsche trans, like some VWs are using but that might be a bit extreme...
RE: Engine transplant options..... - Nick H - 11 Oct 2016
Really sorry to hear about Flopsy Claire.
I like the sound of the Peugeot PSA ES V6 conversion. FIL had a 406 V6 manual saloon back in the day. One of his staff borrowed it for a month and did not check the oil. This did bad terminal things to the engine!
We picked up a salvage 406 Coupe engine for £500 at the time and a mechanic mate of FIL fitted it.
The cruise control never worked again as the Coupe was not fitted with it. However that car could seriously shift. I gave it a shake down run and saw 140!
That 24v V6 in the D will be quite quick enough.
I reckon you might have to look at upgrading the brakes!I will be really interested in updates on your progress.
Nick
RE: Engine transplant options..... - Guinney1971 - 12 Oct 2016
hmm, thanks for that Nick
I've got a friend in Belfast who knows of a 1998 Laguna 3.0 RTi with a good running engine, which I could possibly snaffle for £100. Obviously there's the cost of fetching it, but Phill's looked into flights & ferries, and we reckon it'll be £300 all in with the car on our driveway.
The Laguna is apparently 194hp, so more then adequate, and obviously I'll need to look at the stopping power.
With the car in bits, not only can we do the engine swap and repair the chassis, we can also tidy up all the suspension components, and convert the car
to run on LPG - so I'll get a bit more power, and much cheaper running costs
RE: Engine transplant options..... - Dan Willis - 17 Oct 2016
(11 Oct 2016, 11:49)Stuart Rees Wrote: Hi Claire, a Rover V8 sounds like a good idea. It's probably the engine that *should* have been used in the first place by the factory. I've always wondered if a Subaru flat 4 (with turbos) would fit, ideally with a Porsche trans, like some VWs are using but that might be a bit extreme...
The problem with any flat or horizontally opposed engine is that it's very wide but not tall, so V4/6/8 engines will be the only configuration beyond a straight 4, or the VR6 (VW) lump that'd go in easily.
I'd like to leave the frame in one piece; most transplants tend to involve cutting the rear crash beam out.
RE: Engine transplant options..... - Guinney1971 - 18 Oct 2016
Mark Sutton mentioned the Corrado VR6 engine on Facebook last night, nice idea, but Corrado VR6's are pretty rare and
I wouldn't want to cannibalise an already rare car.
Anyway, whilst still doing research, we wont be doing anything 'physical' to at least early next year, as we have a new frame for a 47ftx16ft
garage being delivered next week, and our priority will be building the new garage, so that we have somewhere to work on Flopsy, and also driveway space
for a donor car (probably the 3.0 Laguna a friend in Ireland has sourced us), as at the moment we are rammed to the gunnels here with cars!
Will update further in due course, but its gonna be an exciting 12 months, seeing Flopsy be transformed, with a refurbished chassis, new engine, air con
rebuilt, suspension overhauled, brakes upgraded as necessary and LPG fitted. You never know, she might even make the NEC next year if it all goes to plan!
RE: Engine transplant options..... - Chris P - 18 Oct 2016
an interesting link folks…. http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/car-design/videos/a30671/the-ls-powered-delorean-is-all-we-ever-wanted/
RE: Engine transplant options..... - Dan Willis - 19 Oct 2016
(18 Oct 2016, 15:29)Chris P Wrote: an interesting link folks…. http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/car-design/videos/a30671/the-ls-powered-delorean-is-all-we-ever-wanted/
There's a few videos of both that LS4 and the LS1 DeLorean about. The beauty of the LS4 is it's designed to be mounted longitudinally and therefore has very shallow waterpump and inlets, so, it fits the DeLorean without cutting the rear end off. But, alas, our £ is worthless and LS4s are rare, so bringing a known engine in to the UK would be costly - let alone finding anyone willing to work on it or the electric/ECU side of things. A nice idea though.
RE: Engine transplant options..... - dannyj75 - 19 Oct 2016
Personally I like the idea of a rover V8 but I wouldn't be after much power so would settle for a Carb version 3.8ltr. I haven't done any proper measuring but I believed the rover might fit without modifying the chases depending on exhaust routes and if you move the gearbox forward an inch or two. However, I stopped thinking about it when the cost of time and specific parts put the idea above £8k. It made it easier to accept the prv warts and all and deal with the problem of complete engine failure if or when it happens.
Good luck and post everything you do if you decide to go ahead with an engine swap.