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+--- Thread: BAE Turbo kit (/showthread.php?tid=4061)
Re: BAE Turbo kit - RobScott - 22 Jul 2013
you are 100% correct. thats what you would controll with the 5th injector driver.... alltho as its a 6 cylinder motor, it would be a 7th injector lol
its real easy to sort as its a stand alone system for the electronicly controlled injector.
Re: BAE Turbo kit - stunned_monkey - 22 Jul 2013
RobScott Wrote:you just decrease its total advance. which is easy enough on a mech dizzy
Which is a bodge and is exactly how they did it on the Island Kit. Advance is RPM related not boost related.
Quote:. or use an msd with boost retard module.
Won't work on an odd-fire engine the last time I looked.
Quote:at 6 psi your not going to need loads of extra fueling, so doubt thete will be any significant bore wash at low rpm, and regarding mot, just pull the probe out a bit.
going a step further, it wouldnt be hard to rig up a 5th injector driver to provide extra fueling on boost.
6psi is 41% over natural aspiration. Dodgy MOT's are one way to go I suppose.... and I think you mean 7th injector.
JamesRGUK Wrote:Is there any way of making use of the cold start injector to enrich the mix under boost?
It's only one injector with a low flow rate. It could make a difference but not maintain the required extra fuelling all the way to the red. You're far better off playing with control pressure as with the UTCIS-PT but their customer cupport is pretty poor
Re: BAE Turbo kit - RobScott - 23 Jul 2013
i dont know why you have to 'pick up' on things i have written, like the 5th injector bit, ok i was quoting on 4 cylinder motors, but if you actually read what i put, i did say its actually 7th injector as its a 6 cylinder car... its just the fact that the drivers are more commonly used on 4 cylinder cars so are known as 5th injector drivers.
You can use can MSD on odd fire motors, as it is quite similar to an 8 cylinder dizzy which is missing two terminals. The MSD just works off the points or hall sensor signal.
you could allways change the injector for a higher flowing item if it wouldnt provide enough fuel.
As for limiting the advance of a mechanical dizzy, its no bodge. Personally I'd do it by means of a grub screw to it can be finly tuned rather than bending the limiters of the weights.
Re: BAE Turbo kit - RobScott - 23 Jul 2013
looking into the msd timing controll modules, there seems to be conflicting info wether they work or not, ive emailed MSD to see what they say.
It all depends how far you want to go, how much money you want to spend. etc.
Pulling the probe out the exhaust a bit isnt exactly a 'dodgey' MOT, as its not a saftey issue, its only emissions....
theres lots of ways to skin a cat, and theres lots of ways to turbo a car, there is no real 'right way', because, if it works, it works, and depends how drivable, how long you want it to last, low reliable you want it.
For example, a Drag car with a huge turbo, locked out timing and a 4 barrel draw through, itsnt going to be good for anything else but dragging.... some people may say its the wrong way, but if its doing its job, then whats the issue?
also the beetle we turbo'd, it cost £200, took 4 hours, does 16 sec quater miles, we didnt even limit the timing! 13psi, and nearly a year later its still running.... oh, and it drove to and from york raceway too.... all was done the wrong way in some peoples eyes, and was a 'bodge job' ... but it worked...... and the people that were telling us it was wrong... just happened to be the people who hadnt turbo'd a car before, they were just going off what other people on forums had said....
in the VW scene, theres this big thing where people also say that an aircooled porsche motor 'itsnt' a bolt in job to a beetle / camper, that its just a pub legend.... me and my mate proved that the pub legend actually is true, but sticking a 6 cylinder motor into an early bay.
oh, sorry, also, ok its not car related, but arcade machine, the Sega Megatech uses carts based on megadrive roms.carts, but they arnt compatable, as the megatech games are more expensive than megadrive games, it would be cool if you could put cheaper MD carts in a Megatech, so cheaper games, bigger library of games..... It couldnt be done........
But for some reason i can now use MD carts in my megatech.... oh i wonder why?
If your going to tell someone that somthing cant be done, or its a bodge/shit/whatever... back it up with proof that you have done it, and experianced flaws etc yourself.
Re: BAE Turbo kit - stunned_monkey - 23 Jul 2013
RobScott Wrote:and theres lots of ways to turbo a car, there is no real 'right way', because, if it works, it works,
:roll: Define "works". Let's start with the fuel economy, driveability and longevity of the original engine. Matching that is the start point at which most people would agree a turbo engine "works".
Then move into the proper engineering of getting AFR and ignition timing "right" so that it works on the hottest of hot days and the coldest of cold mornings, never pinks or smokes and always idles smoothly without hunting.
Quote:If you're going to tell someone that somthing can't be done, or its a bodge/poo/whatever... back it up with proof that you have done it, and experianced flaws etc yourself.
#2727, the only twin turbo DeLorean in the UK. Originally a bolt-on, then the original 2.5 Renault turbo conversion with turbo pistons and crank installed into the original block and turbo heads, cams and manifold bolted down on top. Now twin chargecooled with fast road cams 280ft-lbs and 275hp (well, once we replace the clutch with something stronger than the standard Renault turbo unit). There are others.
Re: BAE Turbo kit - RobScott - 25 Jul 2013
yeah i head about that, ha ha.
No, your wrong, a Turbo engine Works, when it does the job it was designed for by the user.... anything else is a bonus.
A drag engine... Not reliable, not drivable, fuel economy is shite...
whats its purpose? to get down the quater mile as fast as possible for at least one race meeting... if it does that without blowing up, then I'd say thats a success.
Have i said i want good fuel economy?.... no, my daily does 15mpg, so..
Do i want it reliable?... not that bothered really, its not going to be my daily car.
Drivable? naa not bothered about that either, as I've driven rally cars/race cars on the road, and even used them as daily drivers too. My Karmann ghia's first motor was a 1600 on twin 40's, no chokes, no heat, drove it through winters, carbs froze up on the motorway, by balls froze up too, but did i care? nope.
So there you go, I've defined 'works' for you.
Re: BAE Turbo kit - RobScott - 25 Jul 2013
i didnt want to be petty, but seeing as though your picking up on things i say...... the Kjet doesnt have an air mass meter.... its an air FLOW meter, there is a big difference.
Re: BAE Turbo kit - stunned_monkey - 25 Jul 2013
RobScott Wrote:yeah i heard about that, ha ha.
Well done. Heard from whom/where/when? Has that person or have those people seen or driven the car in its latest incarnation? Given what you wanted was proof I have experience of the problems you can get turboing a DeLorean, the fact that the car went wrong a lot surely makes that point....?
Quote:i didnt want to be petty, but seeing as though your picking up on things i say...... the Kjet doesnt have an air mass meter.... its an air FLOW meter, there is a big difference.
Are you arguing semantics or do you want to explain the difference between volumetric flow rate and mass flow rate? I can assure you ANY car engine is metering the mass flow rate one way or another. Since AFR is based on mass, it'd be a bit difficult to do it any other way.
As to your car, as I said in an earlier post: Good luck.
Re: BAE Turbo kit - RobScott - 26 Jul 2013
:roll: you really are a sad git, :lol: picking up on a slight spelling mistake. man i wish i was such an awesome internet warrior, and everyone bowed down to my awesomeness. I'd get up every morning, look in the mirror and tell myself i was the biggest winner in the whole wide world, while masturbating to my reflection.
Just from this thread, i can see how 99% of the people i talk to think your an arse.
Yes i can argue the difference between flow and mass, but seeing as though you seem the kind of person that would argue that pigs could fly if you thought it was true, I'd be getting no where.
I though that forums were so people could help each other out, not so we can piss on each others dreams :lol:
Re: BAE Turbo kit - Nick H - 26 Jul 2013
Steady on guys.
Re: BAE Turbo kit - stunned_monkey - 27 Jul 2013
RobScott Wrote::roll: you really are a sad git,
....
Just from this thread, i can see how 99% of the people i talk to think your an bottom.
And here endeth my participation in this thread. FWIW I came back to edit my recent post and get rid of most of it but was too late.
I know I don't come across well in text, but I've given up caring what certain people think. You ask advice, I respond based on years of working on umpteen DeLoreans and on a background as a professional mechanical and electronic engineer.
Because I don't tell you what you want to hear, you argue and ultimately descending to personal insults... you'll notice I did nothing of the sort and won't start now.
As I've said twice now: Good luck with your car.
Re: BAE Turbo kit - Rich Hanlon - 28 Jul 2013
I think both of you are very talented mechanics and certainly both know what you are talking about. I know Martin has been experimenting with these things for many years and has come up to several dead ends. Reading between the lines I don't think rob is worried by coming up against setbacks himself and try to find a way around them for himself. I bet if you two were to meet in person and have a 'live' conversation you would find that you had a lot in common, and togehter be able to achieve wonders with these motors!
Re: BAE Turbo kit - Starglider - 29 Jul 2013
Rich Hanlon Wrote:I think both of you are very talented mechanics and certainly both know what you are talking about.
Ed Uding is also a good person to talk to about turbos on the DMC-12 engine, he's built several twin and single turbos and is very familiar with building up and tuning the PRV. He does tend towards the 'throw money at it' rather than DIY solutions though, with EFI, dual widebands, forged internals, professional dyno tuning etc.
Re: BAE Turbo kit - Rissy - 29 Jul 2013
Rich Hanlon Wrote:I think both of you are very talented mechanics and certainly both know what you are talking about. I know Martin has been experimenting with these things for many years and has come up to several dead ends. Reading between the lines I don't think rob is worried by coming up against setbacks himself and try to find a way around them for himself. I bet if you two were to meet in person and have a 'live' conversation you would find that you had a lot in common, and togehter be able to achieve wonders with these motors!
Well said Rich. I bet you're right.
Re: BAE Turbo kit - RobScott - 29 Jul 2013
possably
ha ha, if we do meet in person i'll give him a kiss and make up for our internet bickering before the delorean gets turbo'd, we have a 1966 Ford Galaxie Custom 500 2dr sedan to turbo
blow through with a twin choke holley, and a stand alone boost retard computer (which basically you just wire it in between the points and coil, take a feed for the boost, and ajust the pots on the computer to set the amount of retard per PSi. its a straight 6 4.0L motor