+- The DeLorean Owners Club UK Forum (http://www.deloreans.co.uk/forum)
+-- Forum: DELOREAN HELP AND ADVICE & PARTS CROSS REFERENCE (http://www.deloreans.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: 1 - Engine (http://www.deloreans.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: Coolant leak - I think! (/showthread.php?tid=2311)
Re: Coolant leak - I think! - Carl Hammond - 24 Jun 2009
jerzybondov Wrote:Carl... so sorry to hear this mate. I'm afraid I can't offer any kind of advice but I can offer some sympathy...! Upon finding out that my ventilation system still doesn't work after a week of pissing about I was fed up last night - but it's nothing like this...
Good luck getting it sorted...
Hi Gez,
That's ok mate, your words are enough...
Best regards
Carl
Re: Coolant leak - I think! - jerzybondov - 24 Jun 2009
Might be worth giving Chris a call to see if he can steer you to what he thinks is buggering the system up - as you say, he knows that car better than anyone... I spoke to him yesterday, he's always ultra busy but right now he's just super busy so I'm sure he can spend a couple of minutes on the phone to you
You'll have best luck getting him on the landline (01268 680278).
Re: Coolant leak - I think! - jerzybondov - 24 Jun 2009
Carl Hammond Wrote:Hi Gez,
That's ok mate, your words are enough...
Best regards
Carl
I wish they actually were...
Aha - look Gez has offered some sympathy and suddenly the coolant leak is fixed. Wow!
Imagine that?! :lol:
Re: Coolant leak - I think! - NickT - 24 Jun 2009
Carl Hammond Wrote:NickT Wrote:Have you got an air bleed kit on the car? i can't remember. Nick.
Hi Nick,
Sorry people I keep forgetting to answer this question! :oops: The answer is, Yes! I do have a bleed kit on the car. Do I know how to use it...No! :? Oh dear, I really don't deserve to own a classic car do I! :oops:
Chris N has done sooo much work on the cooling system - he's been an absolute diamond, considering the time and effort he's spent on her! He would be able to tell you more in depth what work he's carried out. Chris, you out there mate???
From my little knowledge I have, so far parts/work that's been done is...
New Thermostat - which Chris said was working perfectly.
New stainless header tank - thank god for that, I think my old plastic one would have exploded into little pieces by now!
New Otterstat - which was working 100% in another car!
2nd hand rad - but still better than the old one and a brass one at that.
Chris also flushed out the system a number of times before topping up with antifreeze/water again. I imagine he would have pressurised the system a number of times too? In fact, he tried every trick in the book to try and keep her cool! Water pump is getting old, but still doing its job!
Running out of options to be honest, got less choice than a Welsh Fish & Chip shop! :lol:
C
The air bleed kit self bleeds air out of the system so in effect you don't have to know how to "use it" !
Do a quick test:
disconnect the leads on the 'otterstat' switch
put a link wire between the two plug connectors on the leads.
put ignition key to position 2 (can't remember off by hand if the main fans are isolated by the main or accessory relay)
the front fans at the radiator should both be spinning.
If only 1 is spinning then you have a fan/ motor fault.
If NONE are spinning then there is a wiring/ relay / fan fail unit issue.
Might be worthwhile putting in a lower temperature rated otterstat switch in for now so the fans come on earlier although it would be best to sort out the fundamental issue of the cooling.
Nick.
ps Might be worth getting the radiator off and flow tested.
i am concerned you still have some residual sludge in if your water is slightly brown.
To Refill cooling system I disconnect top SMALL hose of rad, fill with coolant until water comes from top of rad.
Reconnect small hose.
Undo bleed bolt from water pump
Refill coolant until water comes from bleed hole.
Re-screw in bolt in water pump
Start engine, put heaters onto max and max heat on mode switch.
keep water level half way in header tank and keep an eye on temp gauge while doing so.
ensure fans kick in when just above white area on temp gauge.
Re: Coolant leak - I think! - Carl Hammond - 24 Jun 2009
Claire Usher Wrote:it sounds like you've got air in the system, and its literally chucked its toys out of the pram -
if you've not got a bleed kit, then water will escape through the overflow pipe on the coolant
bottle - which is just above the back right hand section of the chassis - it is possible that
water has run down that, then dripped/poured onto the ground that way.
Also, and here's another good one to check - Phill had a problem with Sorbet loosing coolant
a few years ago, and it was down to the failure of the cap on the coolant bottle - basically
it wasnt holding pressure anymore, so kept throwing water out of the overflow. Good luck, and keep us informed.
Claire, you're a genius!
You see this is where the even the smallest advice works dividends! I shall explain...
You mentioned the overflow pipe, this now makes a lot of sense! I wasn't aware of this pipe and upon checking underneath the car last night was baffled when I found an outlet at the back right hand section of the chassis - just as you've described here Claire! It did appear that water had escaped from here too, but at the time I couldn't work out why? All I remember Alex saying at the time was it was running out of the back like a tap - well actually her exact words were "it looks like Lily is taking a p**s :lol: Yes, thank you for that Alex! :roll:
Also, again you mentioned about Phill's problems with Sorbet and the cap failure on his coolant bottle right? Well, as mentioned, I had a nice new shiny stainless bottle fitted by Chris N. On Sunday when I went to check the level, I noticed that the cap was very ill fitting, not sure if it might have been the orginal off of my old bottle tbh? It was a right bu***r to screw back on though! Anyway, I guess I assumed at the time that as long as it was on it would be fine, didn't even think about pressurising!!
I told you my knowledge was shocking!!! :oops:So, it sounds to me like I may have ineverdantly let air into the system by not sealing the cap properly? This would explain the overflow, right and this is easily resolved too by using the self bleeding kit, right?
The only thing this doesn't quite explain, is the leaking around the middle/back area of the car?
But otherwise all very encouraging signs...
I feel a tad better about things now, thanks Claire.
Best regards
Carl
Re: Coolant leak - I think! - Guinney1971 - 24 Jun 2009
no worries mate, we are all here to share ideas and experiences - what I have put may
not necessarily be right, and NickT could be right, but I thought I'd post up anyway in
case it helped you at all
You've got to remember tho, that water will run to a fairly low point sometimes and meander
somewhat before gravity finally sends it to the garage/driveway floor :wink:
I've got a stainless coolant bottle on my car, and it can be a sod sometimes to get the cap
to seat properly when you put it back on.
Good luck matey, and keep us informed.
Hopefully Lily will keep her 'bladder' closed now!! :lol:
Re: Coolant leak - I think! - Carl Hammond - 24 Jun 2009
OK I have had a chat with Chris N and he thinks he may know what's causing these overall cooling issues now...
He is currently doing bits of work on his own car, including an engine rebuild and has discovered a load of crud in the liners and the chambers. These areas were beginning to build up with rust and all kinds of debris.
Having seen the build up in there, he is almost certain now that my car has the exact same problem! This would explain why the water still looks brown and murky and why the engine in particular is getting very hot! The water is circulating correctly around the the system, but when it passes through these chambers cannot keep it cool enough, probably down to all of the crud!
What do we think then, could this explain all of my cooling issues. Pretty much eliminated all other possibilities! :?
Anyway, tonight I'm going to top her up, pressurise the system and see where that leads us...
Wish me luck!
All the best
Carl
Re: Coolant leak - I think! - Chris Williams - 24 Jun 2009
I know myself from pulling these engines to bits, there can be huge amounts of crud in there (I'm Sure TT has seen this also) unfortunatly it can also be difficult to shift as it tends to solidify. If you can get the drain plugs on the side of the block out it will give you an idea of the condition in there. But be careful not to break them! Hope this helps
Chris
Re: Coolant leak - I think! - NickT - 24 Jun 2009
NickT Wrote:............
Another cause could be silt collected at the bottom of the engine sides.
At each side of the engine there is hex screw you can undo and then flush through from top of engine to the bottom.
NickT
..I meant an INVERTED heax bolt, like you need a big allen key.
There are drain holes either side of the engine here you can flush the silt and rubbish out.
Might be a big awkward and I think you have to remove the starter motor, I can't remember it's been ages since I did mine.
The other side might be behind the catalytic converter if you still have one.
Keep flushing !
NickT
ps good luck !
Re: Coolant leak - I think! - A Van - 24 Jun 2009
Carl, I know you need to use the car for a prom..but my personal advice if it was me is do not drive it under any circumstance until you get the problem sorted.
If it boiled over last night it will do it again and likely leave you stranded and could make the problem worse...leading to head gasket problems, if you had got air in the system...unlikely...it would have bleed out via the self bleed kit you have fitted.
If you can drive it to a local garage within a few miles ?? and ask them to test for hydrocarbons in the coolant, that will give a good indication of head gasket problem or not, maybe your local garage could flush out the crud if Chris could email you instructions on how he would do it?
Al
Re: Coolant leak - I think! - Chris Williams - 24 Jun 2009
No real instructions I'm afraid as it does really solidify. I cleaned them out when the engines were in bits so was somewhat easier. Other than trying to pressure wash through the drain holes or removing water pies and trying to reverse flush the cooling system I dont know what else to suggest. I'm not sure how effective 'Holt's' cooling system flush/cleaner is but may also be worth a try. I do tend to aggree (NickT I think) regarding the radiator I know ChrisN would never sell anything dodgy but its very difficult to judge a radiator by looking at it.
Your friendly local garage should be able to do a sniffer test on the coolant to check for gas (for just a few pounds) although this is not always 100% effective.
Chris
Re: Coolant leak - I think! - Carl Hammond - 24 Jun 2009
A Van Wrote:Carl, I know you need to use the car for a prom..but my personal advice if it was me is do not drive it under any circumstance until you get the problem sorted.
If it boiled over last night it will do it again and likely leave you stranded and could make the problem worse...leading to head gasket problems, if you had got air in the system...unlikely...it would have bleed out via the self bleed kit you have fitted.
If you can drive it to a local garage within a few miles ?? and ask them to test for hydrocarbons in the coolant, that will give a good indication of head gasket problem or not, maybe your local garage could flush out the crud if Chris could email you instructions on how he would do it?
Al
Hey everyone, again thanks for the words of wisdom.
I hear you Alistair, I'm not going to push my luck just because I want to use her! I'm lucky that I've caught it now I guess, the last thing I want to do now is make it worse. I guess the fun will just have to wait again...
she is really beginning to test my patience now though! :x Are you confident that my garage will know how to do this hydrocarbons test? The last time I took it down there, they didn't appear to have a clue, when they saw the car!!
I think what's most concerning me now, is that even with the fans on FULL TIME, she's still cooking a couple of notches below the 220 mark, even when driving along - and now this!!
I'm going to take your advice and leave her in the garage at least for the foreseeable future, at least she can't come to any harm there...
Best regards
Carl
Re: Coolant leak - I think! - A Van - 24 Jun 2009
Even if you did take the car out Carl...would you really enjoy it or would it be more of a worrying experience...having to monitor guages near constantly etc...?
What sort of cars does your local garage work on?..if you say its a PRV from late 70's early 80's used in Volvos etc...they should know that engine, I dont think I have met many mechanics who havent..unless they are under 30...if not ring around a couple of other garages that are close.
Avoid garages that seem to specialise in " Tyres and Exhausts " and " Kwick Klutch" you need a mechanic not a fitter!
Most garages have the knowledge and gear to carry out those tests.
Re: Coolant leak - I think! - NickT - 24 Jun 2009
I will give you a hand one evening if i am in Norwich next week.
How far away are you from NR5 9JD ?
I would be staying at premier Travel Inn Showground on A47.
have you got a hosepipe?
Re: Coolant leak - I think! - A Van - 24 Jun 2009
They need to test for hydrocarbons when engine is hot and cold..the head gaskets can fail in such in way that the oil mixes with the water...but the water doesnt mix with the oil...or vice versa.
You could also drive down the road break down and call out AA or RAC I have seen them carry testers for this.
Any decent garage Carl with a time-served mechanic would know what to do, prob only cost a few quid.